Slytherin, Draco, Snape, they're not all that bad, right? Discuss...
posted by alison at
8:57 am | in
charmed knits
glad that alpaca is going to great use!! and i missed your last post - otto is unbelivably cute. excellent finishing touches! hope to see you guys this weekend... ~gabriella :)
HAH! My husband absolutely INSISTS that Snape isn't really and truly a bad guy, despite the obvious evidence that is currently to the contrary. (He says that it's a clever plot twist on the part of J.K. to throw us off Snape's true mission!)
Now, Draco, he's just a horrid little weasel......or no wait, that's a horrid little **ferret**, isn't it????
;>
I've adopted Slytherin as my house even though I'm sorted into Ravenclaw over and over again - and even have a cool pair of socks underway. Look at it this way - if no one else in Blogland wants to be in Slytherin, there's more space for my stash in the common room. :)
Although Ravenclaw is my house, I adore Snape. He's got to be a good guy, or I'll just cry.
I'm with you Erin - I can't help feeling he's kinda cool and just too smart to be all bad. Although it might just be Alan Rickman that I really like! ;0)
Ditto on Rickman, the perfect Snape. Dumbledore is no longer perfect, sigh. Although the original actor died, couldn't they have picked a second guy who looks the way Dumbledore is supposed to look? And sound? I keep thinking about the newish theory that Jesus arranged with Judas to turn him in.......could Rowling have used a similar plot device? We'll know the answer in a few months! Meanwhile, there's a scarf to knit for Toad Hall Bookstore's midnight party giveaway.
I totally agree, Mary. I really don't like the new Dumbledore - he seems so mean. I guess it'll make watching the 6th movie a little easier! ;0)
Sorry, Beth. I'm sharing the Slytherin common room with you (and our stashes).
Alison, I am hoping against hope that Snape will turn out not to be evil. He's been my favorite Potterverse character since before Alan Rickman first played him! I think there are good arguments to be made on his behalf (on Snape's behalf, that is, not Mr. Rickman's, though I am sure there are many to be made on Mr. Rickman's behalf also) but I won't jam up your comments with them. I'll just keep my fingers (metaphorically) crossed until sometime in the wee hours of July 21, when I'll have finished Book 7.
I agree with the comments about the new Dumbledore, although it's wonderful acting it's just not ..........Dumbledore. He's too emotional,too disturbed,too Shakespearian.
I MISS THE REAL DUMBLEDORE!!!!!!
Snape isn't good OR bad. He really is a double agent, even to himself. He's completely conflicted, and he's going to have to choose in Book 7.
Me? I think he's going to sacrifice himself for Harry--he might even be the one to kill Voldemort in the end (Harry won't--Harry won't kill *anyone* intentionally) because he will see Harry's mother in Harry's eyes (that's why the eyes have always been a big deal). IMO, Snape and Lily were at least very good friends--and Snape's "worst memory" was his worst memory because he lashed out at Lily, not because he was humiliated by James and Sirius.
Regardless, I still wouldn't wear a Slytherin hat. lol
Great thoughts, Jenn. Sounds convincing. I'm with you on the Slytherin hat too! ;0)
I believe in Severus Snape!
Draco doesn't want to do evil, he wants his family to be proud of him. Sure he's malicious, but he didn't want to do no killing! He couldn't. Dumbledore knew that.
Snape only LOOKS evil. I'll cry my heart out 'til it's dry and bare if Snape doesn't turn out to be a good one. I love him. :)
My husband and I have agreed a pact with his son (who we only see every other weekend) that we solemnly swear not to read Harry Potter without him. So when we read it aloud to him we'll be hearing it for the first time too. Luckily he's old enough to handle any scary/sad themes but young enough that he's still ok for us to read to him (even though he can totally do it himself.)
/dorkiness
I think Snape's a good guy. The feeling that I got in the scene in the book where he killed Dumbledore was that Dumbledore was imploring him to do it (in such a way that the real bad guys wouldn't recognize). If Snape is really on the side of good and he's infiltrated the bad guys, it was the only way to maintain his cover, and Dumbledore knew that and how much they would need Snape and his intel in order to win in the end.
I don't have anything solid to base that on, and I haven't read others analyses in order to see what arguments other, more well-versed Potter fans have to say for or against, but it was the only way that scene made sense to me.
I still have this sneaking suspicion that Rowlings will have the Slytherins surprise us muchly in book 7. I vote for not all bad.
hmmmmm. it's an interesting thouhgt that snape is good. however, to me, there is so much pointing the wrong way. the occlumency lessons. his general treatment of harry, and his friends. his complete inability to let old grudges go. i just can't buy the "good guy hiding out as a bad guy" image. and remember, alan rickman has historically always played bad guys, from hans in die hard, to the sherrif of nottingham in robin hood. the only good guy role i know about is that movie about a doctor.
i picked the bad guy sticker at borders, myself.
as for malfoy, the poor boy is deluded. he just wants to please his mother, and possibly replace his father. maybe he wants to prove that he won't fail his mother, where his father did. who knows. he's too young and full of himself to be truly evil.
I was wondering if anyone actually wanted to be sorted into Slytherin. They just seem to be such a bad group, not the ones I'd want my jr wizard hanging out with, but they must have some redeeming characteristics.
My boyfriend thought I should make a Slytherin scarf instead of the Ravenclaw one I am making because fewer people would have one.
I don't think all slytherins are evil--look at Slughorn, for example, and possibly Regulus Black--but most of the slytherins we know right now are, at the very least, not people I'd want to dress up as.
At least in my Ravenclaw stuff I can pretend to be Luna Lovegood.
I don't think Snape is all bad, either. He's not nice, but he's not evil.
There are those who say that what happened at the end of book 6 was faked in some way, but I'm not sure I buy that.
As for Draco, I think he's bad, but a coward and that's why he couldn't do the deed.
There is no way that Snape is evil. Dumbledore made him do it! For the good of the team, because Dumbledore is all about the team.
Draco isn't evil, either. Easily manipulated, but not evil...
I cannot wait until the next book! 2 months!
I just did a series review -reread and listened to books on tape - in preparation for the last book. Yes I am such a dork. So I just finished a read of book 6, not a close reading, I think I would have to read it again for that, the pace picks up so fast and I can't help but get caught up and the pages just fly by.
But this time I knew what was going to happen so I was not completely numbed by Dumbledore dying. I believe in Snape. Dumbledore held firm - was maintaining his air of authority with Malfoy and with the Deatheaters, almost stalling for time - then crumpled when Snape came - pleaded. I think he was pleading for Snape to kill him to spare Malfoy from doing the job.
There were some interesting points about death - the Sorcerer's Stone - Dumbledore explaining to Harry how to a well-ordered mind, death was nothing to fear. Harry talking to Nearly Headless Nick about the why of ghosts and whether he would see Sirius as a ghost. Ghosts are wizards who fear the passage to the other side. And finally the whole idea of Horcuxes and Voldemort fearing death. Maybe death and love are linked - unstoppable forces that you must surrender yourself too.
Jenn does have a good point about the eyes - it is a recurring theme, not only Harry having "his mother's eyes" but not looking into people's eyes (Dumbledore into Harry's towards the end of book 5).
Anyway that is my treatise, thanks so much Allison, can you tell the English major in me was itching to burst out and expostulate on the subject?
Snape is bad, bad, bad. It's been fun, wondering, but I'll be really disappointed if he turns out to have a heart of gold.
Sorry, I'm Gryffindor all the way. If you ever saw my ten-year-old son (complete with knobby knees, shaggy dark hair, round glasses, and scar over the eye) you'd agree that I really have no choice.
Beth -- ROFL. Room for your stash. Good thought!
I believe in Snape in that I believe he's loyal to Dumbledore. I also believe that he's not all good or all bad -- just like all people. Harry isn't a gem either. You can do mean things to people sometimes and still not be the person that joins up with true evil. J.K. Rowling never wanted to write a good-guys-wear-white-and-are-perfect vs. bad-guys-who-wear-black-and-are-irredeemable kind of story.
What I love is that Alan Rickman has known all along through the films what Snape's true loyalties are. J.K. felt it was important for him as an actor to know. So she told him.
Soon, we will all know. I preordered - I can hardly wait. I should start reading them all again...
Like them or not, you have to have the Slytherins to counterpoint the other houses... though I don't think there's a single one of them who is wholly likeable.
Draco is a victim of his horrible father.
Can't resist a good HP discussion....
Regarding the eyes, when Dumbledore looked into Harry's eyes at various points in the series, for example, he was probably performing Legilimency. Same with Snape's eyes "boring" into Harry now and then.
But imo, the "mother's eyes" thing is different. That's more a matter of people seeing Lily in Harry's eyes, and I think that will be important....I mean, why did Voldemort give Lily a chance to live? Because Snape begged him to, I'd wager. Having Lily's eyes will save Harry, maybe more than once--it might inspire Peter Pettigrew to act in Harry's defense, too, although I don't think he had the same strong tie to Lily that I believe Snape had (I think Snape was "that horrible boy" Petunia mentioned, and I think he's the reason Lily was particularly good at Potions when everyone else says that her strength was Charms).
On the climax of Book 6 with Snape and Dumbledore, I think Dumbledore was begging Snape to keep the Unbreakable Vow Snape made with Narcissa--otherwise Snape would have died on the spot. As has been said of the Order of the Phoenix, "there are some things worth dying for." Keeping the Order's main spy would qualify....although now he's not much use because no one will trust him. But Dumbledore probably knew his days were numbered anyway because of the curse-related injuries, so why sacrifice someone younger and stronger? Look at how he even refused to let Harry use his blood to open the door to Voldemort's hiding place (though I think there may be a LOT more to the "your blood is more valuable than mine" comment).
I *also* think the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape all those years was that Snape made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore to protect Harry as penance for turning the Potters in to Voldemort. That's why Snape has hassled Harry (he doesn't like him because he looks like James) but still never let him come to any mortal harm (because of the Unbreakable Vow). He hasn't even had Harry expelled (which would put Harry in grave danger, presumably), and he certainly could have after the sectumsempra incident if nothing else.
I think about this stuff waaaay too much. Great HP knitting book, btw. I'd had mine ordered for months and I was so excited to get it the other day.
I'm totally with Jenn and Sonya. There's something going on there that Rowling's hinted at but may never fully explain (damn her eyes if she doesn't! or if Snape really is bad!).
Are Slytherins really evil? I don't think so. I mean, it kinda makes sense to put all your probable bullies in one place - that way a) you can keep watch over them and b) everyone else knows who to watch for. But... we know also that James and the gang were bullies to some degree.. and none of them were Slytherins (iirc, it's been too long! must read the books again). And after all, not everyone is going to fit the requirements of the other three houses, and they will still need to be sorted and have a place. I actually think it's really big of them to have a place for the people no one really likes - they may be rejected on a personal level, but society still has a place for them (closely watched!).
My memory is poor, but wasn't there something about Harry almost getting sorted into Slytherin? Something about being self-centered and disrespecting rules? It seemed that the point being made at the time was that his 'good intentions' and desire for Gryffindor tipped the balance, but there was also an underlying thought of there being a lot more similarity between the houses than is immediately apparent.
Not only is Snape not all bad--as played by Alan Rickman he's absolutely hot!
Love Snape! He's not evil. I think Harry just has to face the final conflict without any adults. He has to realize that he is strong enough and if Sirius or Dumbledore or Snape are there, that won't happen.
Then I plug my fingers into my ears and chant "They're not dead, I don't care what you say, lalalalalalalalala", over and over again. Besides, Sarah's right, Rickman is lovely!
Snape IS a good man (I hope). :-p
Okay---Just had to chime in here. Draco is redeemable but I think it will be a stretch. He's a lot more Wormtail-ish. . . cowardly. Snape. . .he's an enigma. I think there was some sort of plan between he and Dumbledore (I cried when he died--my husband thought I was completely nuts.)but I fear Harry will not be able to see the truth of it. Speaking of Harry. . . I DO believe that JKR will kill him off in book seven. She has no scruples! On other Potter sites like Muggle Net people keep saying they are her books and her characters and she can do as she likes. I think that's a load of HOOEY. . .but I'm in the minority on that one.
It's fun to read about the Harry Potter books. My kids enjoyed talking about it this morning at breakfast after I read the comments. I think Petigrew owes Harry his life.. I think he will be helping Harry at the last minute to make sure Voldermort dies... I'm hoping Snape is a good guy and it's Dumbledore's master plan. I agree on the new actor for dumbledore.. it made it so hard to watch the third movie. Yet the next one it didn't bother me as much. I can't wait to see the next one... maybe time to make a house scarf.. Griffindor of course. Though my youngest son insisted on getting a Slytherin robe for Halloween one year. I can't figure out if it was the snake on it, or the color green.. or him simply being mischievous. It makes me believe we all have good and bad inside.. just wonder how it will all work out.
I'm enjoying the comments about the possible friendship between Snape and Lily. I don't remember reading about it, but I like the idea. That changes quite a bit. I also agree with those of you who are not quite taken with the new Dumbledore. I'm convinced it's the eyes. Original Dumbledore had the kindest eyes. New Dumbledore has a harsher look. Just last night I was discussing with a friend the idea that maybe Dumbledore's death is not what it seems. Previous comments cover most of our thoughts on the subject.
But as for knitting up a Slytherin item...I don't know. I don't believe that just because the hat sorts students into Slytherin means they'll turn out bad, but until I know what's going on with Snape, and whether or not Draco follows through with Voldemort's plan, I just might consider a Slytherin knit bad karma.
Although, green and grey/silver would coordinate with more of my wardrobe than the yellow/black Hufflepuff house I've been sorted into!
p.s. Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that an unbelievable amount of knitters have been sorted into Ravenclaw?
Sorry, Beth, you'll be sharing the common room.
I have been VERY disappointed in the last two books (JKR keeps killing off characters I like), but I will to be totally GUTTED if Snape turns out to be evil.
I love the characters that are redeemed 'bad boys'. I think Severus is too smart to be taken in by the Dark Lords promises for over a decade. And Dumbledore was too much a student of human nature to trust Snape without some good reason(s).
I vote for 'good' - because good doesn't always equal 'nice'.
Go Slytherin!!!
Sorry, Beth, you'll be sharing the common room.
I have been VERY disappointed in the last two books (JKR keeps killing off characters I like), but I will to be totally GUTTED if Snape turns out to be evil.
I love the characters that are redeemed 'bad boys'. I think Severus is too smart to be taken in by the Dark Lords promises for over a decade. And Dumbledore was too much a student of human nature to trust Snape without some good reason(s).
I vote for 'good' - because good doesn't always equal 'nice'.
Go Slytherin!!!
no clue what that showed up twice - Alison, please nuke this comment and one of the 'twin' ones. thanks.
Yes yes yes! Snape will be redeemed! I'm glad I'm not the only one who is still hoping.
(and how do you like the Ultra Alpaca, by the way?)
wow - Alison - I saw your book today for the first time - it is delightful, beautiful and fun! I can't believe how you could do it all with your twins and a pregnancy. . . you're amazing - good wishes!!
I really don't believe Snape is a bad guy. I think (hope) it's a plot twist to throw the reader off.
I refuse to believe that Snape is a bad guy. It just goes against every fiber of my being...even with cirumstances being what they are right now. But Darco....GAH! The little brat. Blech.
I just finished book 6 (for the first time) just last night. I agree, that the death of Dumbledore by Snape had more to it then just what is at the surface (what Harry believes). I don't really like Snape much, but I don't think he is totally evil. I belive in Dumbledore and feel that he had a good reason to trust Snape and so I feel Snape will not let us down in the end.
Also I don't like the new Dumbledore from the movies. He is hard and gruff. Not at all like the real Dumbledore. Too bad they couldn't find a better replacement.
Hey Alison, have you seen the pattern for the Hedwig illusion dishcloth over at Freshisle Fibers? (http://www.freshislefibers.com/Patterns/Hedwigillusioncloth/Hedwig%20Illusion.pdf)
Pretty cute!
Bought your book today and it is wonderful! Great job! I really to appreciate all the sizing options from kid to adult- my boys can't be the only ones with H sweaters!
You should be very proud! And I think the whole Snape is evil gambit is a trick- I think he really is good!
I doubt this is the best way to go about this, but I can't seem to find a solution to my problem any other way! My only hope is that either you read your comments, or that someone who does might know the answer! I bought your book "Charmed Knits" and have run into a problem with your pattern for the Mrs. Weasley "H" monogram sweater. Have you noticed a problem? Has anyone? Could someone who has knitted this sweater email me so I can get some help with this pattern?
Thank You!
well, since i thought it might post my email... and i was obviously wrong... (oh, this awful finals week! i have absolutely no mind for practical thought!) i'm sorry for my spamming, but-- [deleted email - I don't want you to get spam, Jessica!]
I'm slightly more Griffyndor than Ravenclaw and don't think that all Slytherins are bad. Their common trait, but not the only trait, is that they're *ambitious*. Ambition is not good or bad. The goal of the ambition is another matter.
They're also self-centered (but then aren't we all?), because you have to believe in yourself and in your goals, and do what you have to, to attain that goal. Sometimes you are considerate of others in your striving and sometimes you're not.
Slughorn was Slytherin's head of house and his goal is to have a life of creature comforts and to be connected to the famous. Doesn't sound too bad, does it? Especially if the creature comforts include lots of soft yarn and sets of Mrs. Weasley's magic needles to help finish all those UFOs!
Snape is a Slytherin because he's striving too. He's been wanting to be the DADA instructor and keeps trying. I think he's out for himself, playing both sides to get what he wants. What that is, though, is not clear to me.
Cant' wait till July 21 to find out how it all ends. Then I will weep because it's all over. What an amazing gift JKR has given the world.
I TRUST SEVEROUS SNAPE.
I might wear my Gryffindor scarf proudly ~ but I have Slytheryn socks poking out of my shoes, you can be sure of that.
Now I need some more green yarn...